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Idea for a Rhythmic Set Theory Function
JulioHerrlein replied to JulioHerrlein's topic in Function examples
Dear Janusz, Hope it can be useful. It will be great to have this new function ! Thank you ! With a dedicated function, all this can be more elegant, for sure ! An easier workflow. All the code below can be embbeded in only one code: (binary-map (row-rotation -7 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) all this can be something like (pcs-to-rhythm (pcs '3-11) 1/16) with optional arguments, like :rotation - rotation of the series wrapping around itself. :displace - put a rest of, for ex, 1/16 before the set ;legato - t, for full value or nil (default) for normal operation (each value equals the quantization (pcs-to-rhythm (pcs '3-11) 1/16) (pcs-to-rhythm (pcs '3-11) 1/16 :legato t) only the rhtyhm (without the notes) :mod - defalt is the 12 time point cycle, but optionally, any cycle rotation, like 16, for example. :crop - assuming 12 time points as the default cycle, the crop option let you take portions of the sets to use. It's easy, just make something to cut the last parts of the binary result. (pcs-to-rhythm (pcs '3-11) 1/16 :crop 8 ) will result in: (pcs-to-rhythm (pcs '3-11) 1/16 :crop 8 :displace 1) (pcs-to-rhythm (pcs '3-11) 1/16 :crop 8 :rotate 1) The crop option helps using portions of the Rhythmic Sets, by truncating some of them, like this: In the preceeding example, only parts of the 2 sets are used (9 time points out of 12 in the first and 8 time points out of 12 in the second). Best ! Julio -
Alpho joined the community
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I am glad you found a way to achieve the result. Now I can make a function which will allow us to work with a series.
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Idea for a Rhythmic Set Theory Function
JulioHerrlein replied to JulioHerrlein's topic in Function examples
This is the EASIEST Method to achieve the result !!! FINALLY !! Without the need of Meier's Functions !! (binary-map (row-rotation 0 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) YEEEEESSSSS !!! added 10 minutes later (binary-map (row-rotation 1 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation 0 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -1 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -2 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -3 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -4 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -5 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -6 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -7 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -8 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -9 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) (binary-map (row-rotation -10 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) AND FINALLY, back to que original (binary-map (row-rotation -11 (gen-binary-row 12 (pcs '3-11)))1/16) It works ! - Yesterday
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Idea for a Rhythmic Set Theory Function
JulioHerrlein replied to JulioHerrlein's topic in Function examples
MY effort, version 2 (setf pcsrhy1 (flatten (omn :length (length-staccato 1/16 (time-point-system (pcs '3-11b :pitch)'s))))) ;; here you adjust the rotation of the rhythm: (1) is the original, 0 is one 16th note ahead (-1) is 2 16th notes ahead and so on (setf pcsrot1 (row-rotation 1 (length-to-binary pcsrhy1 1/16))) (binary-map pcsrot1 1/16) The aforementioned Meier's functions are necessary... Best, Julio -
Idea for a Rhythmic Set Theory Function
JulioHerrlein replied to JulioHerrlein's topic in Function examples
This is my best effort, using two André Maier functions (THANKS ANDRÉ !!!) (binary-map (row-rotation 7 (length-to-binary (flatten (omn :length (length-staccato 1/16 (time-point-system (pitch-rotate 0 (pcs '3-11b :pitch))'s :start 0) )))1/16))1/16) Here are the Andre Meier Functions invoked in the code above: ;EXTRA FUNCTIONS ;;;LENGTH-LEGATO (ANDRE MEIER) (defun length-staccato (n alist) (let ((newlengths) (new-omn (omn-merge-ties (flatten alist))) (time-sign (get-time-signature alist))) (progn (setf newlengths (loop for i in (omn :length new-omn) when (> i 0) append (if (= n i) (list i) (list n (* -1 (abs (- i n))))) else collect i)) (if (omn-formp alist) (omn-to-time-signature (make-omn :length newlengths :pitch (omn :pitch new-omn) :velocity (omn :velocity new-omn) :articulation (omn :articulation new-omn)) time-sign) newlengths)))) ;;LENGHT TO BINARY ANDRE MEIER (defun length-to-binary (lengthlist n) (let ((newlist (loop for i in (omn :length lengthlist) collect (/ i n)))) (loop for x in newlist when (> x 0) append (append (list 1) (gen-repeat (1- x) '0)) else append (gen-repeat (abs x) '0)))) (length-to-binary '(-e -s s q e) 1/16) (length-to-binary '(-1/16 1/16 -1/8) 1/16) => (0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0) (length-to-binary '(-q s s q e) 1/16) => (0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 0) -
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Idea for a Rhythmic Set Theory Function
JulioHerrlein replied to JulioHerrlein's topic in Function examples
Dear Janusz, This function will deal with the cyclic and rotational aspect of the rhythm, conceived as a necklace: The pitch class set is conceived as a modular space and converted to rhythms with rotation inside the modulo. The figure above shows a module 8 rhythm. In my catalog, every rhythm is module 12, but you can :CROP (possible parameter of the function) the rhythm in a shorter module or cycle, or you can concatenate many sets to form a longer rhythm. HERE IS THE POINT (what time-point-system don't do) There's a difference between que time-point-system function and the idea I'm talking about. I'll try to explain: THIS CODE: (time-point-system (pcs '3-11b :pitch)'s :start 0) Results in And This (time-point-system (pcs '3-11b :pitch)'s :start 4) Results in But, in this case, when the start parameter exceeds 4, like with this code: (time-point-system (pcs '3-11b :pitch)'s :start 5) The rhythm cross to the next bar. So, the rhythm is NOT working like a necklace, it's exceeding the 12 time-points... In my hypothetical Function, let's say the "pcs-to-rhythm" function the result would be like the upper staff below, Pseudo-code (pcs-to-rhythm (pcs '3-11b :pitch)'s :rotation 5 :mod 12) i.e, the note that is going to next bar is actually rotated back to the begining of the same bar, like rotation, wrapping around the modulo 12. Possible parameters would be: :mod - The modulo of the rhythm (explained below) :rotation - the range would be 1 > (mod - 1) :crop the range would be x < mod Let me know if I made the point clear. Best, Julio -
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;;; CHANGE-TIME-STRUCTURES ;;; works okay, but not exactly precise because of rhy-to-integer, which is not very easy in some cases ;;; this function changes basic-rhy-structures (if it's all the time perhaps in x/32) ;;; to other/changing sections. the lengths/rests will be rounded like in LENGTH-RATIONAL-QUANTIZE ;;; rhy+span => '((32 2) (44 7)) => means in 32 three values, in 44 seven values (defun change-time-structure (omnseq rhy+span &key (basic-rhy 32) (round 1/4)) (let* ((intseq (loop for i in (omn :length (flatten omnseq)) collect (* i basic-rhy))) (rhyseq (mapcar #'car rhy+span)) (spanseq (mapcar #'cadr rhy+span)) (divided-intseq (gen-divide spanseq intseq))) (length-rational-quantize (flatten (gen-length divided-intseq rhyseq)) :round round))) (change-time-structure '(2/44 -2/44 3/44 5/44 6/44) '((32 2) (20 2) (28 3)) :basic-rhy 44) => (1/16 -1/16 -1/8 3/20 1/4 -1/10 3/14 -1/28) (change-time-structure '(2/32 -2/32 3/32 5/32 6/32) '((20 2) (44 2) (28 3)) :basic-rhy 32) => (1/10 -1/10 -1/20 3/44 5/44 -3/44 3/14 -1/28) could be done better -> go for it 🙂 greetings andré
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Help needed Binary Length values
JulioHerrlein replied to JulioHerrlein's topic in Function examples
Thanks a lot, André !!! Exactly. That's great ! Julio -
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The function is already there: time-point-system (setf row '(bb4 a4 gs4 as4 cs5 e5 d4 f4 g4 eb4 fs4 c5)) (time-point-system row 's :start 0) => ((h bb4 tie e. s a4 tie) (h a4 tie e e gs4) (e. bb4 cs5 q. e5 tie) (q e5 e. d4 e f4 e. g4 tie) (q g4 tie s e. eb4 q fs4 tie) (e fs4 h c5 tie e))
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something like that? (defun length-to-binary (lengthlist n) (let ((newlist (loop for i in (omn :length lengthlist) collect (/ i n)))) (loop for x in newlist when (> x 0) append (append (list 1) (gen-repeat (1- x) '0)) else append (gen-repeat (abs x) '0)))) (length-to-binary '(-q q e) 1/16) => (0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0) (length-to-binary '(-q s s q e) 1/16) => (0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 0)
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In my Dissertation, I worked a way to convert every chord and set in a modulo 12 rhythm, so the entire catalog of FORTE are converted to rhythms, following the steps of Babitt: As a hardcore serialist, Babbitt was interested in converting 12-tone rows to rhythms, in a kind of 12-tone rhythm theory. Below, Wuorinen show one example of a typical Babbitt idea: For the sake of explaining my idea of function, it's important to have in mind that for Babbitt, the order of the row is very important and lead to different results in the pitch to rhythm conversion. Take a look in the example below: In the preceeding figure, the order of the C major triad generate different rhythms. In the example (0 4 7) have a different result from (4 0 7) or (7 0 4). In the system I developed in my Dissertation, the order does NOT matter, since (0 4 7), (7 0 4) or (4 0 7) will result in exactly the same rhythm, as you can see below: In my system, the transposition equals rotation (as well as in Babbitt) And every chord symbol can be transformed in a rhythm: Even voicings can be converted in longer Rhythms (the more spread the voicing, the longer the rhythm): So I did every FORTE SET in the catalog, in this way: Below, you can see the example of the rhythm of the major triad (Forte number 3-11b). In the 1st bar there is the prime form (0 4 7). In each subsequent bar there is a rotation of the first set by 16th note increments. HERE IS THE POINT, for the sake of the new function ! The note C (that I call Rhythmic Fundamental, the "root" of the rhythm) is being displaced, as you can see in the circled notes. THE SET WRAP AROUND ITSELF, always forming 12 time-points (always twelve 16th notes), in a different way from Babbit, where the order of the sets generates longer rhythms. THIS WAY IS MORE INTERESTING For Popular and Minimalist Repetition Music, as well as 12 tone music. In the bottom staff, there are the complementary rhythm of the 3-11b set, i.e., the 9-11a set. In the catalog, every set is presented alongside its complementary set and every set is presented in 3/4 (16th notes) and in 12-8 (with the 8th note as the base value for the increments and rotations). So the function needed would be the one that mirror exacty this kind of conversion, not the tradicional time-point-system conversion, so I could use my catolog inside Opusmodus, connecting the diferent sets, like this: Or even using portions of the Rhythmic Sets, by truncating some of them, like this: In the preceeding example, only parts of the 2 sets are used (9 time points out of 12 in the first and 8 time points out of 12 in the second). So, I hope someone could help me to find a way of implementing this. Maybe Janusz or Stephane could find interesting to develop this kind of idea inside the software. All the best ! Julio Herrlein
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Dear Friends, 1) How to convert a given length series in a binary series ? For example: ((1/16 -3/16 1/16 -1/8 1/16 -1/4)) with 1/16 as a base could be transformed in binary like: (1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0) and/or 2) How to convert a length 3/16 in 1/16 -1/16 -1/16, i.e. a kind of length conversion based on quantize. 3/16 could be converted in 1/16 -1/16 -1/16 or 1/32 -1/32 -1/32 -1/32 -1/32 -1/32 depending on the value regarded as the reference (1/16 in the first case or 1/32 in the second) Thanks ! Julio Code example (setf ccpa1 (omn :length (length-staccato 1/16 (time-point-system (pitch-rotate 0 (pcs '3-11b :pitch))'s :start 0)))) ;EXTRA FUNCTION NEEDED ;;;LENGTH-LEGATO (by ANDRE MEIER) (defun length-staccato (n alist) (let ((newlengths) (new-omn (omn-merge-ties (flatten alist))) (time-sign (get-time-signature alist))) (progn (setf newlengths (loop for i in (omn :length new-omn) when (> i 0) append (if (= n i) (list i) (list n (* -1 (abs (- i n))))) else collect i)) (if (omn-formp alist) (omn-to-time-signature (make-omn :length newlengths :pitch (omn :pitch new-omn) :velocity (omn :velocity new-omn) :articulation (omn :articulation new-omn)) time-sign) newlengths))))
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Sometime ago, I was searching for a function that would be the exact opposite function of length-legato. Lenght-legato turns this: onto this: I wanted exactly the reverse: Changing this: to this: In the ocasion, Andre Meier came with this code below: Janusz, do you think a good idea to include a function like this in the library ? Or there is also something similar that I dont know ? I still need it in a easy way... Best, Julio (defun length-staccato (n alist) (let ((newlengths) (new-omn (omn-merge-ties (flatten alist))) (time-sign (get-time-signature alist))) (progn (setf newlengths (loop for i in (omn :length new-omn) when (> i 0) append (if (= n i) (list i) (list n (* -1 (abs (- i n))))) else collect i)) (if (omn-formp alist) (omn-to-time-signature (make-omn :length newlengths :pitch (omn :pitch new-omn) :velocity (omn :velocity new-omn) :articulation (omn :articulation new-omn)) time-sign) newlengths)))) (length-staccato 1/16 '(q -q q q)) (length-staccato 1/16 '(q e4 mp q tasto q -q q q)) (length-staccato 1/16 '((e. c4 eb4 fs4 a4 tie) (s a4 e. cs4 e4 g4 e bb4 tie) (e bb4 e. d4 f4 gs4 s b4)))
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Thanks Janusz, that's right !
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Thank you, SB !
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Thank You, SB !
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Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. S.
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- babbitt
- time point system
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Turing Piano (Julio Herrlein)
Stephane Boussuge replied to JulioHerrlein's topic in Made in Opusmodus
Great, well done ! S. -
Thanks a lot, my friend ! Best, Julio
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Eight hours later! Spent all day reviewing related Opusumodus functions/documentation and researching your concepts and references...a very satisfying time in furtherance of my ongoing Opusmodus education ;-) Thanks again Julio for the inspiration, and Janusz for ALREADY including/implementing so many useful tools related to these subjects :)
- 7 replies
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- babbitt
- time point system
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qusunelonianich joined the community
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Click on the midi panel first 🙂
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Nice to hear It from You, Loopyc ! Hope it can be inspiring ! Best, Julio added 0 minutes later Thank You, Janusz !
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Thank You, Loopyc ! I' m trying to make this as practical as possible, applying the concepts in compositions and also for improvising. Best, Julio added 11 minutes later Thank You, Janusz !!!
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Hello, I have a problem, I can not finalize an import of a midi file in OPMO. As you can see in the screenshot, the file is imported into the piano-roll, it is correctly read but when in the File menu I want to access "Midi to Partition", this function remains inactive. Do you have an idea to solve this problem? Thank you in advance. Didier
