different notation

[david]

Hi,

could someone help me

here's a blues;-)

 

(setf blues '((-e e a5 -e e fs5 g5 e5 d5 bs4)(3e cs5 3e d5 3e cs5 e b4 q as4 tie e as4 fs4 3e cs5 d5 cs5 e a4)(e b4 cs5 d5 e5 fs5 e5 d5 cs5)(e c5 e4 g4 b4 bb4 fs4 d4 c4)(q b3 -q 3e a4 3e bb4 3e a4 e fs4 e g4 a4)(e bb4 b4 c5 cs5 d5 bb4 g4 es4)(e fs4 a4 3q b4 cs5 e5 e cs5 d5 fs5 a5)(e bb5 s a5 ab5 e g5 eb5 c5 ab4 g4 f4)(e e4 g4 b4 d5 b4 bs4 cs5 a4)(e b4 g4 e4 a4 fs4 g4 b4 d5)(e fs5 f5 cs5 a4 q d5 -e e cs5)(e c5 d5 e5 g5 bb5 3e g5 3e f5 3e d5 e c5 g4)))

 

;;; transpose loop is ok
(setf looptrans (loop for i in '(0 5) 
      append (pitch-transpose i blues)))

 

;;;main task applied to all measurements with notation error bar 2-7-12-14-19-24
(setf loopbars   (loop for bar in looptrans collect ;;or append
               (list (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order (first (gen-divide 4 bar))
               :type :pitch :seed 3) :type :pitch) 
               (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order (second (gen-divide 4 bar))
               :type :pitch :seed 3) :type :pitch))))

 

 

 

[jesele]

When gen-dividing bars with tuplets, that's what happens.

There is probably a better way but you could add a length-span that makes sure every bar is 1.

 

Jesper

 

(setf loopbars  (loop for bar in looptrans collect ;;or append
               (length-span 1 (list (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order (first (gen-divide 4 bar))
               :type :pitch :seed 3) :type :pitch) 
               (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order (second (gen-divide 4 bar))
               :type :pitch :seed 3) :type :pitch)))))

[david]

thank you Jesper.

apparently  rhythm and notes are not similar to the original bar

original

with (length-span 1

 

[jesele]

They can't be.

Let's look at your second bar, just the lengths

 

(setf bar2 (omn :length (second looptrans)))

;;then you divide it 
(setf div (gen-divide 4 bar2))

;;then you take the first 4 notes and if you sum them, they are 1/4 long
(sum (first div)) ;; = 1/4

;; the next 4 notes sums to 13/24
(sum (second div));; = 13/24

;;together they make 19/24
(+ 1/4 13/24) = 19/24 which is what you got in your first example although notated as 3/4 + 1/24
(+ 3/4 1/24) = 19/24
 

It will never add up with tuplets like that.

What length-span is doing is if the lengths are too long to fit the measure, it cuts off or shortens the end , and if it is too short it repeats. So the last 4 notes in your second picture are the first 4 notes repeated, starting after 19/24 so that it adds up to 1 or a 4/4 bar

[david]

whouahhh I see what you mean, you are an expert!
would it be possible instead of "gen-divide" to use a function to divide bar in 2? 2/4
currently blues is in 4/4

(setf blues '((-e e a5 -e e fs5 g5 e5 d5 bs4)(3e cs5 3e d5 3e cs5 e b4 q as4 tie e as4 fs4 3e cs5 d5 cs5 e a4)(e b4 cs5 d5 e5 fs5 e5 d5 cs5)(e c5 e4 g4 b4 bb4 fs4 d4 c4)(q b3 -q 3e a4 3e bb4 3e a4 e fs4 e g4 a4)(e bb4 b4 c5 cs5 d5 bb4 g4 es4)(e fs4 a4 3q b4 cs5 e5 e cs5 d5 fs5 a5)(e bb5 s a5 ab5 e g5 eb5 c5 ab4 g4 f4)(e e4 g4 b4 d5 b4 bs4 cs5 a4)(e b4 g4 e4 a4 fs4 g4 b4 d5)(e fs5 f5 cs5 a4 q d5 -e e cs5)(e c5 d5 e5 g5 bb5 3e g5 3e f5 3e d5 e c5 g4)))

[jesele]

(omn-to-measure blues 1/2)

 

Jesper

[jesele]

Maybe just:

 

(setf blues '((-e e a5 -e e fs5 g5 e5 d5 bs4)(3e cs5 3e d5 3e cs5 e b4 q as4 tie e as4 fs4 3e cs5 d5 cs5 e a4)(e b4 cs5 d5 e5 fs5 e5 d5 cs5)(e c5 e4 g4 b4 bb4 fs4 d4 c4)(q b3 -q 3e a4 3e bb4 3e a4 e fs4 e g4 a4)(e bb4 b4 c5 cs5 d5 bb4 g4 es4)(e fs4 a4 3q b4 cs5 e5 e cs5 d5 fs5 a5)(e bb5 s a5 ab5 e g5 eb5 c5 ab4 g4 f4)(e e4 g4 b4 d5 b4 bs4 cs5 a4)(e b4 g4 e4 a4 fs4 g4 b4 d5)(e fs5 f5 cs5 a4 q d5 -e e cs5)(e c5 d5 e5 g5 bb5 3e g5 3e f5 3e d5 e c5 g4)))

 

(setf looptrans (loop for i in '(0 5) append (pitch-transpose i blues)))

 

(setf tmp (omn-to-measure looptrans 1/2))

;;randomizing and back to 4/4

(setf res (omn-to-measure (loop for x in tmp collect (rnd-order x :type :pitch :seed nil)) 4/4))
;;or reversing the order

(setf res (omn-to-measure (loop for x in (gen-divide 2 tmp) collect (reverse x)) 4/4))

 

Jesper

[david]

Thank you Jesper!

I see by doing this option,  notation is ok! with tie on bar 2...bizarre...so!

 

you were right, I deleted the tie bar 2, second time on "blues"!
there is no more problem now!

 

Are you musician, composer ?

do you have any advice for me to progress with om?

I am a jazz saxophonist and I 'm looking to develop my harmonic and rhythmic language with OM...in a simple way;-))

 

thank you for your clear explanations Jesper.

 

[jesele]

Great. I worked as a classical percussionist and jazz drummer for 20 years, then shifted to composing.

No real advice I'm afraid. Just keep exploring.

 

Jesper

[david]

Hi,

I am not changing subject because it is about division of bar.

 

(setf Like '((e f4 g4 a4 bb4 c5 d5 q e5)(e d4 e4 f4 g4 q a4 -q)(e f5 e5 d5 c5 b4 a4 q gs4)(e e5 d5 c5 bb4 a4 g4 q fs4)(e g4 a4 bb4 c5 q d5 -q)(e f5 e5 d5 c5 b4 a4 q gs4)(e f4 g4 a4 bb4 c5 d5 q e5)(e f4 g4 a4 bb4 c5 d5 q eb5)(e bb4 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 q a5)(e a4 b4 cs5 d5 e5 fs5 q g5)(e d4 e4 fs4 g4 a4 b4 cs5 b4)(e a4 g4 fs4 e4 q d4 -q)(e g4 a4 b4 c5 d5 e5 f5 e5)(e d5 c5 b4 a4 q g4 -q)(e c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 a5 bb5 a5)(e g5 f5 e5 d5 q c5 -q)(e f4 g4 a4 bb4 c5 d5 q e5)(e d4 e4 f4 g4 q a4 -q)(e f5 e5 d5 c5 b4 a4 q gs4)(e d4 e4 fs4 g4 a4 bb4 q c5)(e g4 a4 bb4 c5 q d5 -q)(e f5 e5 d5 c5 b4 a4 q gs4)(e f4 g4 a4 bb4 c5 d5 q e5)(e f4 g4 a4 bb4 c5 d5 q eb5)(e bb4 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 q a5)(e a4 b4 cs5 d5 e5 fs5 q g5)(e d4 e4 fs4 g4 a4 b4 q cs5)(e f5 e5 d5 c5 b4 a4 q gs4)(e e5 d5 c5 bb4 a4 g4 q fs4)(e c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 q bb4)(e f4 g4 a4 bb4 c5 d5 q e5)(e c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 a5 bb5 a5)))

 

;;;I divide bar in two ( 2/4-2/4)

(setf tmpO (omn-to-measure Like 1/2))

 

after divide bar in half to randomize each part of 2/4, I reassemble in 4/4

(setf res (omn-to-measure (loop for x in tmpO collect (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order x :type :pitch))) 4/4))

 

;;;;randomizing length on res pitch
(setf melo  (make-omn
:pitch (omn :pitch  (omn-to-measure (loop for x in tmpO collect (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order x :type :pitch))) 4/4))
:length (gen-eval 32 '(rnd-order '(e e e -e e e_q)):seed 86138)))

 

This is where I have a problem with division of pitches which should respect tmp0 (2/4)

 

could someone help me please.

 

David

 

 

 

[jesele]

Seem to me that rnd-order is not working well with length-symbols for some reason.

Try this 

;;Convert the length-symbols to ratios

(setf lengths (mapcar 'length-symbolp '(e e e -e e e_q)))

 

;;randomizing length on res pitch
(setf melo (make-omn
             :pitch (omn :pitch (omn-to-measure (loop for x in tmpO collect (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order x :type :pitch))) 4/4))
             :length (gen-eval 32 '(rnd-order lengths) :seed 86138))
      )
 

 

Jesper

 

This works but converting to length symbols is better since the tied note (e_q ) comes in unusual positions

 

(defun scramble (lst)
  (let ((positions (rnd-order (loop for i to (- (length lst) 1) collect i))))
    (loop for pos in positions collect (nth pos lst)))
  )

(setf melo (make-omn
             :pitch (omn :pitch (omn-to-measure (loop for x in tmpO collect (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order x :type :pitch))) 4/4))
             :length (gen-eval 32 '(scramble '(e e e -e e e_q)) :seed 86138))
      )
 

 

[david]

amazing!!!

I try to understand

 

what does mean 'length-symbolp ?

(setf lengths (mapcar 'length-symbolp '(e e e -e e e_q)))

[david]

here is comparison with your first solution on the first 4 bars. tmpO (reservoir of notes)

 

result on 4/4. I'm trying to understand the logic... because some notes slip in the second part of the bar...it can be an interesting musical aspect...harmonic shift;-)

 

here is comparison with your second solution

tmp0

 

result on 4/4. same I'm trying to understand the logic, it seems to be the same thing???

 

merci pour tes explications claires Jesper!!

 

 

 

 

 

[jesele]

length-symbolp is a way I found to convert length-symbols '(e e e -e e e_q) to ratios (1/8 1/8 1/8 -1/8 1/8 3/8)

It's actually for checking if an object is a length-symbol, like

(length-symbolp 'c4) 

->nil
(length-symbolp 1/8)

->nil

(length-symbolp 'e)
->1/8

 

The difference is the tied notes in your last picture. you don't want 3 tied 1/8-notes when you can write a dotted 1/4, so ratios work better here.

The second way with scramble would give the same result if you supply it with ratios instead of length-symbols

 

(setf melo (make-omn
             :pitch (omn :pitch (omn-to-measure (loop for x in tmpO collect (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order x :type :pitch))) 4/4))
             :length (gen-eval 32 '(scramble '(1/8 1/8 1/8 -1/8 1/8 3/8)) :seed 86138))
      )

 

You know Opusmodus can use both length-symbols and ratios.

Example from the help file:

 

(setf pitch '(c3 eb3 a3 eb3 bb4 e3 gs4 cs3 fs4))

(make-omn
 :length '(e s s)
 :pitch pitch
 :velocity '(pp mf)
 :span :pitch
 :length-symbols nil)

=> (1/8 c3 pp 1/16 eb3 mf a3 pp 1/8 eb3 mf
    1/16 bb4 pp e3 mf 1/8 gs4 pp 1/6 cs3 mf fs4 pp)

 

[david]

wouah man!!

complicated for me to understand how OM will draw the notes from tmp0 (2/4) to assemble with omn-to-measure (4/4.

Maybe I should not randomize the pitches for a better understanding  

[jesele]

That's the point with random, you get a new result each time unless you use the :seed argument

Here is rnd-order with seed = 1

 

(setf res (omn-to-measure (loop for x in tmpO collect (filter-repeat 1 (rnd-order x :type :pitch :seed 1))) 4/4)) 

If you evaluate several times the result should be the same. If you change the :seed then you will get a different result

but the same every time.

 

Sorry, but English is not my main language, maybe someone else can explain better.

 

 

 

Jesper

[david]

It's not my main language either!

 

I understand perfectly what you are explaining and I thank you very much

[david]

apparently with seed 1 for both solutions, notation of the first is better. there are still some variations which I don't understand bar 4 and 10..

 

 

[jesele]

Yes, that's why ratios are better here. It shouldn't make any difference but for some reason rnd-order

gives results like below sometimes. Not just reordering but using the same value 3/8 several times.

It might be a bug.

 

(rnd-order '(e e e -e e e_q))
=>(3/8 3/8 1/8 3/8 1/8 -1/8)

 

As I said scramble can handle length-symbols but you're better of with ratios because of the ties. 
 

Here is scramble with added seed

 

(defun scramble (lst &key (seed nil))
  (let ((positions (rnd-order (loop for i to (- (length lst) 1) collect i) :seed seed)))
    (loop for pos in positions collect (nth pos lst)))
  )

(scramble '(1/8 1/8 1/8 -1/8 1/8 3/8) :seed 1)
(scramble '(e e e -e e e_q) :seed 1)
 

Jesper

[Stephane Boussuge]

Dear Jesper,

the seed in OM is a bit special, to use correctly without broke the overall seeds I think it is better to  program your nice scramble function that way:

 

(defun scramble (lst &key seed)
  (setf state *init-seed*)
  (setf seed (rnd-seed seed))
  (do-verbose ("scramble seed: ~s" seed)
    (let ((positions (rnd-order (loop for i to (- (length lst) 1) collect i) :seed seed)))
      (loop for pos in positions collect (nth pos lst)))
    ))

It allow also the display of the seed when you call the function.

 

But you could use rnd-order that way:

 

(rnd-order '(e e e -e e e_q) :encode nil)

[jesele]

Ah, yes, thanks Stephane. That's what I normally use. Just wanted to quickly show a point about random.

Do you happen to know why rnd-order does not work properly with length-symbols?

That you can get results like this?

 

(rnd-order '(e e e -e e e_q))
=>(3/8 3/8 1/8 3/8 1/8 -1/8) 

 

Jesper 

[Stephane Boussuge]

No, I don't know but possibly  a bug in decode/encode process, Janusz ?

 

[david]

I would like to point it is on version 2 that I do this.

[jesele]

Yes, that's what I figured.

Thanks Stephane. 

David, you could take a couple of lessons from Stephan

 

Jesper.

[david]

If only the forum could come alive like this more often it would be a party