lsystem - extension idea

[AM]

;;; a little extension for lsystems, i needed all generations, not only the final one. i think for in-time-processes it's more interesting, because you will hear/see the way of "growing/developing"

;;; perhaps JANUSZ could extended the original OPMO-function. keep attention about stack-overflow if you have LARGE DEPth :-)


;;; function
(defun all-gen-lsystem (ls &key depth )
  (loop repeat (1+ depth)
    for i from 0 to depth
    collect (rewrite-lsystem ls :depth i)))

                    
;;; setup

(defclass sieve_1 (l-system)
  ((axiom :initform '(1))
   (depth :initform 10)))

(defmethod l-productions ((ls sieve_1))
  (choose-production ls
                     (1 (--> 2 1))
                     (2 (--> 4))
                     (4 (--> 2 6))
                     (6 (--> 1))))

;;; example

; new => all gen
(all-gen-lsystem 'sieve_1 :depth 3)
=> ((1) (2 1) (4 2 1) (2 6 4 2 1))

; original => only last gen
(rewrite-lsystem 'sieve_1 :depth 3)
=> (2 6 4 2 1) 

 

[opmo]

Will have a look if time permit. Working on Italian version.

[AM]

it's not necessary for me, just an idea

[torstenanders]

If you want more control over the L-system generation, have a look at the original documentation of the system L-Lisp, from which Janusz derived the Opusmodus functionality: 

 

Erstad, K. A. (2002) L-systems, twining plants, Lisp. Master’s thesis thesis. University of Bergen. [online]. Available from: http://www.vcn.bc.ca/~griffink/lisp_lsystems.pdf

 

Also, the original website: http://www.ii.uib.no/~knute/lsystems/llisp.html

 

Best,

Torsten

[AM]

thank you, torsten!  

(at the moment, I'm thinking about what the GAP is between visual visual l-systems (images, you see the whole "gestalt") and acoustic ones (which more has to do with the PROCESS in time, musical grammar...). the handling / perception / .... is a completely different one)

[torstenanders]

> the GAP is between visual L-systems and acoustic ones

 

Yes, of course, there is a completely different way of perception at play. If you come up with a good answer to that, I would be interested.

 

BTW, if you want some other examples of compositional applications, you might want to have a look at ”Cells” (1993/94) by Hanspeter Kyburz, discussed in the following two publications.

 

 

Supper, M. (2001) A Few Remarks on Algorithmic Composition. Computer Music Journal. 25 (1), 48–53.

 

Holz, E. (2012) Das Wachstumprinzip von L-Systemen in der Musik von Hanspeter Kyburz. Master’s thesis. Hochschule für Musik Hanns Eisler.  Available from: http://www.eresholz.de/de/text/Eres Holz_Ausschnitt aus der Masterarbeit.pdf(Accessed 20 September 2016).

 

[AM]

thanks, torsten!

i know hanspeter kyburz (i almost studied with him  - and because of him i started working with algorithms) and i know some of his works (CELLS / PARTS / ....). if you have the article of ERES HOLZ as pdf, would be nice (the link seems to be dead)...

 

 

only some short thoughts - not on an scientific research level

 

isn't it - in general - a question about complexity and information? 

and complexity/information changes when you are changing/crossing the MEDIA. that means: from algorithms/code/mathematics to sound/music or visuals... also the complexity itself changes, it's like  transforming... "the complexities" are different - the manifestation of it. so it's quite simple - and you feel so important and intelligent and "arty"  - when you TAKE a really advanced mathematical/algorithmic grammar/process as a TOOL, ...but in accoustic perception the result could be quite "noise", because the musical complexity is different and depends - in my opinion - a lot on "how you map these things", on which musical  parameters and objects, in which dimensions...

 

of course, it's also interesting to use such things - like algorithms -  in a way of "creative misunderstanding" (as i think ferneyhough once mentioned in different context), but we should be aware of the GAPS:  algorithmic complexity - effective complexity.

 

what do you think?

 

greetings

andré

 

 

HEINZ VON FöRSTER had some really good thoughts on such things - in an abstract way... here is an article....

disorder:order.pdf

 

and an article from DAVID GALANTER...

Galanter_2003_What is Generative Art Complexity theory as a context for art theory.pdf

[torstenanders]

> if you have the article of ERES HOLZ as pdf, would be nice (the link seems to be dead)...

 

See attached.

 

> isn't it - in general - a question about complexity and information? 

 

I think it is also a question of memory -- we can only perceive a form if we can remember the form parts (Schönberg talks about comprehensibility/Fasslichkeit) which then allows us to compare etc. Obviously, that is more easy in a visual form, where you can see the whole picture together and move between parts at your own pace.

 

Best,

Torsten

 

 Holz_2012_Das Wachstumprinzip von L-Systemen in der Musik von Hanspeter Kyburz.pdf

[AM]

thank you!