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Problems with cent annotations as articulations


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I have no luck with the cent annotations in the score (see example below, the cent annotations are seemingly ignored in the playback, but the other microtonal accidentals are not). Am I perhaps missing something? 

 

Also, what would be truly great would be some way to have cent annotations for individual pitches of chords. For example, the following does work already.

 

'(c4e4-g4)

 

Would be great if we could also use something like the following. 

 

'(h c4e4g4bb4 0c+-14c+-0c+-31c)

 

Thanks! 

 

Torsten

 

(def-score test-playback
           (:key-signature 'chromatic
            :tempo '(q 60)
            :time-signature '(4 4))
  
  (inst1 :omn '((h c4) (h c4) (h c4) (h c4))
        :channel 1
        :sound 'gm
        :program 0
        :port 0
        )
  (inst2 :omn '((h eb4) (h eb4 -33c) (h eb4-) (h eb4 -33c))
        :channel 2
        :sound 'gm
        :program 0
        :port 0
        )
  (inst3 :omn '((h bb4) (h bb4 -33c) (h bb4-)  (h bb4 -33c))
        :channel 3
        :sound 'gm
        :program 0
        :port 0
        ))

 

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This will display the cents if we add the 0c into the attributes -  I will add the 0c value in order to display your example:

'(h c4e4g4bb4 0c+-14c+-0c+-31c)

 

To make cents audition we would end up with 100 possible ports - if MTS is not supported - for a one instrument.

OM smallest microtonal symbols with audition is 1/8 of a tone. The cents attribute is an additional display of the remain cents values and is not a part of the audition.

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The cents attribute is an additional display of the remain cents values and is not a part of the audition.

 

Could proper audition for cent values be implemented? Pretty please? If polyphonic microtonal playback with 1/8 note resolution is already implemented, what would be missing to get the same support for arbitrary cent values?

 

For me, flexible tuning support is the one missing Opusmodus feature I would be willing to pay extra for, seriously. 

 

 

> To make cents audition we would end up with 100 possible ports - if MTS is not supported - for a one instrument.

 

This problem is solved in MIDI MPE (https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe ), which splits polyphonic chords or multiple voices for a single instrument into multiple MIDI channels (not ports!!) and then then can tune each note of a chord independently via pitch bend (plus independent timbre changes etc.). So, the tuning can change on the fly from note to note. 

 

There are already quite a number of synthesisers and samplers supporting MPE, including some of the big players such as EastWest Play (competitor in the league of Vienna Instruments), with which I already used orchestral instruments for microtonal music this way (e.g., played with a Tonal Plexus, https://hpi.zentral.zone/tonalplexus).

 

 

Below are links with several lists for sampler and synthesiser plugins supporting MPE. Besides, every synth/sampler plugin can be turned into an MPE-supporting plugin when running multiple instances in parallel (e.g., with the help of something like bidule). 

 

https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/mpe

https://roli.com/mpe  (scroll down to list of DAWs, plugins etc)

https://support.roli.com/support/solutions/articles/36000037202-compatible-synths-daws-and-instruments

 

 

Also, please note that the score example above is only monophonic within each channel, and even for GM with MTS support the cent annotations are not working for me there. 😅

 

Thanks! 

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Done.

 

'(h c4e4g4bb4 0c+-14c+0c+-31c)

Screenshot 2021-03-04 at 11.42.34.png

1 hour ago, torstenanders said:

Also, please note that the score example above is only monophonic within each channel, and even for GM with MTS support the cent annotations are not working for me there. 😅

 

Cent annotations display only.

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Thanks for the quick response. 

 

> Cent annotations display only.

 

 

I thought when we discussed microtonality at the Opusmodus Convention, and Achim Bornhoeft was talking about the importance of having the flexibility of the cent annotations,  you mentioned that this is already implemented (again), and just lacked documentation.

 

Did I perhaps misunderstand, and microtonal playback with cent resolution was never implemented so far?

 

Thanks! 

 

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The idea of cents attribute is to display the remain cents in relation to the given microtonal notation - yes this is implemented.
In theory we could implement the cents remain attribute (sound) in MTS. In other systems this will end up in a mess: 100 cents equal 100 channels.
 

Check:

cents-to-attribute

 

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Of course, it would be good to have also playback for microtonal pitches with high precision. 😅

 

 > In other systems this will end up in a mess: 100 cents equal 100 channels

No, you need only as many channels per instrument as there are tones sounding simultaneously. With the MIDI MPE standard the tuning of tones is simply changed on the fly with pitchbend messages.

 

For example, my Tonal Plexus has 205 pitches/keys per octave in its default tuning and each of these pitches requires a custom tuning, but I can play it with just 3 MIDI channels if I play only 3 notes at a time. For higher polyphony more MIDI channels are needed. (Of course, MIDI MPE is only a fancy name for something that was always possible with MIDI, but now that many instruments exist that have built-in support setting this up is considerably simplified.) 

 

Anyway, the following specifies some tuning parameter per note, which does work. So, I guess I have to perhaps implement my own version of MPE support in Opusmodus by transforming my scores automatically into this representation with the tuning added. 

 

Thanks again! 

 

Best,

Torsten

 

 

(def-score test-playback
           (:key-signature 'chromatic
            :tempo '(q 60)
            :time-signature '(4 4))
  
  (inst1 :omn '((h c4) (h c4) (h c4) (h c4))
        :channel 1
        :sound 'gm
        :program 0
        :port 0
        )
  (inst2 :omn '((h eb4) (h eb4 -33c) (h eb4-) (h eb4 -33c))
        :channel 2
        :sound 'gm
        :program 0
        :port 0
        :tuning '(0 -0.33 0 -0.33)
        )
  (inst3 :omn '((h bb4) (h bb4 -33c) (h bb4-)  (h bb4 -33c))
        :channel 3
        :sound 'gm
        :program 0
        :port 0
        :tuning '(0 -0.33 0 -0.33)
        ))

 

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The best way to work with microtonality is to get a MTS compatible instrument - one channel with one or 127 microtonal size chord. 🙂

We might add the cents attribute to be audition +- from the given note, this way the chord will play as it should in GM and in/with MTS instrument.

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The best way to work with microtonality is to get a MTS compatible instrument

Yes, I understand. I already have Pianoteq, and might get Vienna Instruments just for this, but still the options (i.e. available instruments) would be limited. (By contrast, the microtonal support for Dorico currently only works for VST3 instruments supporting the VST tuning of note expressions. Also very restricted.)


Anyway, I would like to use microtonal tuning for electronic music at some stage, not just some mockups for acoustic compositions. In that area, there are simply very many more plugins etc. available where I can tune with pitchbend messages...  I very much hope that in the medium term MIDI 2 will solve such problems. 

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MTS has no restriction of any kind. In OM you can create your own tuning with 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 as a basis microtone symbol and the difference you express in the cent attribute or custom symbol (attribute) above the note. You could use custom symbols in tempered scale (1/2) or map etc... There are many ways to solve the communication. With MTS you don't need think about channels, spacial setups etc... you just write the music 🙂
It is very strange that MTS is not widely used - the microtonality in MIDI was solved long time ago.

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