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Hi,

pitches are only displayed as sharps, bug?

 

(ps 'gm
    :bass (list '((w e1 f1 gb1 e1 f1 gb1 ab1 b1)))
    :time-signature '(4 4))

1186645067_Bildschirmfoto2020-07-23um13_20_30.png.a361d5d4013c7601f320c72cc3a0bafe.png

Achim

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5 hours ago, opmo said:

This is correct. any process of pitches will end with:

c, cs d eb, e, f, fs, g gs, a, bb b

 

In my understanding it should be exactly as notated, not interpreted.

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It is not interpretation this is how the system translate integers 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 = c, cs d eb, e, f, fs, g gs, a, bb b.

Opusmodus is not trying to interpreted archaic systems of the past (tonalities, Major, Minor etc...). You can apply them of course but it requires a different perspective.

 

If expression (w e1 f1 gb1 e1 f1 gb1 ab1 b1) is composer intend then you will get the exact notation.

For example PS function will modify the pitch names (Preview Score), the DEF-SCORE instance will not.

 

image.png

 

Note: If expression is modified the system will result in default pitch names.

 

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Great, Janusz !

 

Or maybe put a user defined filter/map, like the one I suggested. With this, some people may choose a custom defined spelling.

This is very useful for adapting material, making some scores more readable for performers (all flats, all sharps, tonality map oriented, etc).

 

By the way, in my humble opinion, I don't think that modes and scales are archaic systems, since even Ligeti in the end of his carreer goes back to diatonic principles (the same is true for Penderecki). There are composers like Arvo Part (with some neomodal "Tintinabulation" stuff), Steve Reich, Terry Riley, and others minimalists that uses triadic and diatonic materiais that can be theorized as modal or tonal. You have jazz oriented guys also, like Kapustin, polystylistic guys, like Schnittke (who mix baroque with avant-garde music in the same Concerto), and many other in between possibilities, including Berio's use of quotation. So, in the contamporary music all tools are avaiable, not only the old-fashioned-historic-vanguard-Darmstad-atonal-Adorno stuff, so diversity and tolerance are important to keep music oxigenated. I know you are open minded guys.

 

All the best

 

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5 hours ago, JulioHerrlein said:

I don't think that modes and scales are archaic systems, since even Ligeti in the end of his carreer goes back to diatonic principles (the same is true for Penderecki). There are composers like Arvo Part (with some neomodal "Tintinabulation" stuff), Steve Reich, Terry Riley, and others minimalists that uses triadic and diatonic materiais that can be theorized as modal or tonal. You have jazz oriented guys also, like Kapustin, polystylistic guys, like Schnittke (who mix baroque with avant-garde music in the same Concerto), and many other in between possibilities, including Berio's use of quotation. So, in the contamporary music all tools are avaiable, not only the old-fashioned-historic-vanguard-Darmstad-atonal-Adorno stuff, so diversity and tolerance are important to keep music oxigenated. I know you are open minded guys.

 

I agree totally 🙂

 

SB

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I don't think that modes and scales are archaic systems

I also agree that while the distinction between flats and sharps is old it is not outdated. In my view, (eb4 bb4) is a fifth, while e.g. (ds4 bb4) is not, regardless of the tuning system.  😉

 

> the system translate integers 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 = c, cs d eb, e, f, fs, g gs, a, bb b.

That is one way to map tone names to integers. There exist other ways that preserve the enharmonic notation and still allow for the pitch class arithmetic that those 12 pitch class integers allow for. One approach is to translate these tones (cs, db) into another Meantone-EDO that tunes these tones differently, e.g., 31-EDO pitch classes (0, 1, 2, ... 30). With that approach, transposing an eb up a fifth results in the pitch class integer representing bb, which differs from the pitch class integer for as. So, for functions that need to translate the pitch symbols into integers for their magic and then back to symbols, there would be ways that allow to preserve the enharmonic notation. Another approach to do this would be the base-40 pitch representation, a very similar idea, that maps enharmonic pitches to numbers up to 40. Happy to provide further details. 

 

Feature request: What I really would like to see in Opusmodus is a pitch representation that is forward looking by generalising as many as possible of the past and alternative tuning systems so that the choice of tone system can be part of the compositional process like any other compositional choice.

 

A particular flexible way to implement that would be by adding support for arbitrary regular temperaments.[1] That system supports in a unified framework

  • Arbitrary equal divisions of the octave (incl. the currently supported 12, 24 and 48 EDO, but also the commonly used 19, 22 and 31 EDO etc.)
  • Just intonation of arbitrary limits
  • Temperaments like Meantone (which brought us these distinction between flats and sharps in the first place) and any other regular temperament (e.g., https://en.xen.wiki/w/Tour_of_Regular_Temperaments)

There even exist notation systems that allow to express a rather large range of all this (arbitrary EDOs, just intonation and various other regular temperaments) with a single set of accidentals (http://sagittal.orghttp://sagittal.org/sagittal.pdf). 

 

Now, I don't expect Opusmodus to introduce any new notation system; expanding the OMN parser is probably too much of a hassle (although a generalised OMN pitch representation would be really nice). However, as we now already have support for microtonal playback output for some tuning systems, why not generalise the playback for playing back arbitrary regular temperaments (or perhaps even arbitrary tuning systems) defined by users.

 

Ideally, this would be expressed at two levels. On the one hand, user-defined tuning tables would specify a mapping how tone names (c, cs, db, ...) should be tuned. For example, tunings like 19-EDO or 31-EDO could be implemented that way (they can be notated with our standard accidentals, they are just Meantone variants). However, this would only work if the system could reliably distinguish enharmonic notation (e.g., ds and eb are tuned differently in these systems), otherwise only the 12 tones of 12-EDO should be tunable. On the other hand, a detuning of a tone (e.g., measured in cent) could somehow be part of the attributes of a note. That was one of the earlier proposals for introducing microtonal pitches. 

 

Sorry for somewhat hijacking this thread with a feature request and for a rather long message. However, a more refine pitch representation would be really important for me 🙂

 

EDIT: Simplification: just introducing support for arbitrary user tunings should actually be sufficient. Users then can care for implementing their own tuning systems (e.g., based on the regular temperament paradigm or otherwise defined). Anyway, it would still be nice to have such tuning support at two levels: user-defined tuning table specifying how notated pitches (c, cs, db...) are tuned and a note-wise tuning deviation probably as part of the note attributes. 

 

Torsten

 

 

[1] A video explaining regular temperaments. Unfortunately, it goes through concepts rather quickly, expects some music theory background, and is part of a series of videos in a playlist, but I found no better video on this. Link to playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB2aHGW45fY&list=PLF6XElTgRwmNgzWUXIJrVbSHjux8pAQAQ

 

 

 

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