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MIDI-pitch-bend-messages

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hi all, i think a it's a beginner-question...

 

in SIBELIUS i can write for microtonal things MIDI PITCH BEND MESSAGES to every note i want - or automatically by a plugin. in the score/above the note then it's written for example ~B0,70 etc....

 

(my PLAYER (conTimbre) works from SIBELIUS via VST) - now the question: how do i send such MIDI-pitch-bend-messages from OPUSMODUS? the opmo-tuning seems to work different and don't work with conTimbre-player...

 

https://www.contimbre.com/en/

 

thanx for any help

andré

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Check the Tuning documents in Howto.

The other way is to use :controllers with pitch-bend-messeges, an example you find in the DEF-SCORE document.

 

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i think it's only possible by :controllers with pitch-bend-messages. i have seen the example, but i have no idea how to realize it without a really concrete example - i'm an absolut beginner with MIDI-etc-things 🙄

 

what i have to write in the :controllers-section - which "midi-number/numbers" for pitch-bend? the bending in conTimbre needs an integer between 1 and 127 => 64 is no-tuning/bend?

 

are there any specialists around in the forum? 🙂

 

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I have not tried to send pitch bend messages via Opusmodus' :controllers output yet, but I remember the following from the MIDI standard. Pitch bend messages are not CC messages. This is partly, because the pitch bend range is not only 7 bit (128 values) like CC messages, but instead 14 bit (16,384 values). What those pitch bend values actually mean depends on the pitch bend range set in your sound generator.  

 

You might want to check some seminal reference on this subject, like https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ajDaXh-qgDUC&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false 

 

Someone else (Janusz?) would need to respond how to send actual pitch bend messages from within Opusmodus. I can't say whether controller actually supports that, but you cannot send pitchbend messages by sending certain CC messages, these are different things with different formats in the MIDI standard. 

 

Best,

Torsten

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thank you torsten - as i see, i would need some help/support. but there is also no solution for microtonal-notation in opmo yet... but ...time will come 🙂

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You can assign any controller to any pitch.
The :tuning can be used as well.
You will find a few examples about tuning and controllers in the "Howto" section.

 

On 10/13/2018 at 10:32 AM, AM said:

thank you torsten - as i see, i would need some help/support. but there is also no solution for microtonal-notation in opmo yet... but ...time will come 🙂

 

There is microtonal possibility but it will not display in the notation.
There are few microtonal examples in the home page "Made in Opusmodus" and in Forums:

 

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- it works not as it should for conTimbre. conTimbre works well with SIBELIUS (via pitch-bend-messages in the score like ~B0,64 or  ~B0,90, like that) => no idea what i shoud do in OPMO?

 

- TUNING: don't work with conTimbre

 

- another thing is, i can't work well with OPMO+microtonality, when it's not possible to have microtonal-notation => so i will do it in SIBELIUS

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Try to make a new sound library for conTimbre samples. Check the controllers in the conTimbre manual and create a new def-sound-set file.
You can use as many controllers you need for a program.

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program-changes are no problem but how to make pitch-bend via opusmodus....?

here is the MANUAL:

ePlayer_Manual_Mac_english.pdf

 

1 hour ago, opmo said:

There is microtonal possibility but it will not display in the notation.

 

i know, but i will need microtonal-NOTATION 

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There is no much information about the controllers etc...

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i have written them (CT) a mail now to get some more information

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the only answer i got was that it works with "midi pitch bend" and with MAX.

 

ConTimbre:
"With Max you can just send floating point pitches, and with MIDI you can either send pitch bend values, but that always affects the whole voice.
But you can also detune every key and, for example, use several Voices with the same timbre, but they have mutually detuned keyboards to get more than 128 pitches. "

 

this will probably not solve the problem. maybe it would be best if OPMO's and ConTimbre's guys communicate directly? that would be in the interest of both companies...(?)

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with MIDI you can either send pitch bend values, but that always affects the whole voice.

 

Actually, MIDI pitch bend always detunes all notes in the respective MIDI channel (no voice). The same is true for CC messages, channel aftertouch etc. That is a principle limitation of the MIDI protocol, and not related to ConTimbre. So, if you have an instrument performing polyphonic music (more than one note at a time), and you want to detune different notes differently, this is not possible if all the notes are played by the same MIDI channel. 

 

One workaround, meanwhile part of the MIDI standard are the so-called MIDI polyphonic expressions (MPE, https://www.midi.org/articles-old/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe). In a nutshell, with MPE you can detune multiple simultaneous pitches independently. The trick is simply to use multiple MIDI channels for performing a single polyphonic instrument, so that every note is played by its own MIDI channel. The second solution proposed by the ConTimbre doc you are quoting is referring to exactly that (but again misleadingly talking about several voices instead of several channels). MPE is meanwhile supported by several major players as listed at the above link in an easy-to-use way (also by Play i.e. EWQL libraries).

 

Best,

Torsten

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thank you torsten - this MIDI-thing is too complicated for me (i don't know how to send, nothing happens).

TUNING works properly with UVIworkstation (ircam solo-instrments). so it stays a BLACKBOX-thing why conTimbre doesn't work

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Good to hear that you have both IRCAM solo-instruments and conTimbre. I was considering getting one of those at some stage.

 

What is your impression of either using them for sequencing with a DAW or notation software?

 

Best,

Torsten

 

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I do not work / almost never with DAW's. OPMO (before pwgl) and sibelius.

i think the conTimbre library is much better - not all samples are quite perfect, but the selection of playing techniques eg. in the strings or in the drums is just very good. my last piece was for ensemble, virtual conductor and e-player (a piece whitch generates its form in quasi-realtime (completely new every time) - by sochastic/markov-procedures)

 

 

- it was possible to play the add-SCORE from the library directly at the concert (midi-files read out with flexible tempo and played on CT) without any problems - mix extremely well with the live instruments. 

 

I do not think the library is very user-friendly, but I do not produce music (i compose, which - in my view - is a different kind of thinking), so that's not so important for me. but it contains many extra features and (or information about sound analysis (and apparently a direct access to LISP to make algorithmic orchestrations)

as I said, not quite smart designed, but the possibilities (compared to the IRCAM library) I feel as much bigger. CT can now also play well from SIBELIUS / FINALE over VST.

 

so I would be much happier if CT ran so well (with microtonal stuff) on OPUSMODUS.

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Great piece, thank you for sharing.

I will download the CT demo version and will see what can be done.

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that would be brilliant!

 

p.s. In about a year, I will control (and generate the DATAS to) the polytempo network (screens + conducting)  as well as the e-player and the music score (parts) directly from OPUSMODUS 🙂

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