erka

Hi Janusz, that was not my question. My question was what density has to do with hocketing. Wikipedia: ".... a single melody is shared between two (or occasionally more) voices such that alternately one voice sounds while the other rests." Doc of gen-hocket: ".... a single melodic line is divided across two or more parts so that only one part sounds at a time; the melody “jumps” between voices...." Two example what I mean: (progn (setf mat '(q c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 b4 c5)) (gen-hocket mat :density '(.16 .23 .4) :index 'v :seed 601331) (setf mv (merge-voices v1 v2 v3)) (list v1 v2 v3 mv) ) ; v1 v2 v3 mv ; => ((-q - - - - - - -) (-q - - - - - - -) (q c4 mf d4 - - - - - -) (q c4 d4 -w.)) ;6 pitches missing. Voice 1 and 2 are probably sleeping (progn (setf mat '(-q -e. s f5 e e6 -s e6 - e6 e6 - - fs6 leg ds6 leg g5 gs6 leg e6 a6 leg bb5 g6 leg fs6 leg ds6 leg g5 gs6 leg e6 a6 leg bb5 g6 leg fs6 leg ds6 leg g5 leg gs6 - e6 a6 bb5 - - b5 b5 g5 - gs4d4)) (gen-hocket mat :density '(.16 .23 .4) :index 'v :seed 601331) (setf mv (merge-voices v1 v2 v3)) (setf lmat (length (omn :pitch mat))) (setf lmv (length (omn :pitch mv))) (list v1 v2 v3 mv lmv lmat) ) #| v1 (-q -e. -s -e -s - - - - - - - - - - - a6 mf leg - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - b5 - - - -) v2 (-q -e. -s -e -s - - - - - - - ds6 mf leg g5 - - - - g6 leg - - - - - - - - - - - - - - a6 - - - - - - - -) v3 (-q -e. s f5 mf -e -s - - - - - - - - - - - - bb5 g6 leg - ds6 leg g5 - e6 a6 leg bb5 - - - - - - e6 - bb5 - - b5 b5 g5 - -) mv (-q.. s f5 -h -e s ds6 g5 -e s a6 bb5 g6 - ds6 g5 - e6 a6 bb5 -q. s e6 a6 bb5 -e s b5 b5 g5 -e) lmv 17 lmat 32 15 pitches are missing and voice 1 is probably drunk. |#My idea of hocketing is that the whole melody is performed in the end but alternating by the players. I once watched Fret Frith with 3 or 4 other guitarists hocket very fast thru a known rock song melody. So it was clear that it was not random notes. The melody was very obvious. No note missing and none added. Each player having another tone for the guitar. This was very impressive. And incredible fast. As part of the concert was quite random and noisy here it became very obvious that this guys know what they are doing. That was my idea of hocketing. When you look at the beginning of this thread the original poster asked for a sequential hocketing through a sequence. Alternating voices. As the gen-hocket was created during this discussions, my question still is how to solve this simple task at the OP asked for with gen-hocket and 3 or 4 voices. Thats all I was asking for. Hope you get the idea. Have a nice sunny Sunday.

Thank you for your research. I didn't expect to have to use another non-library-function to achieve the simplest case of hocketing with gen-hocket, which is single note alternating over a number of voices. What about a pattern of 2 notes each. Another function to be written to generate the binaries? I can't imagine that the medieval singers thought about density or binary patterns. I am sure say agreed on ideas like: We alternate every note or each of use sings 2 notes or the first person sings 1 note , the second 2 notes the third 3 notes and the fourth person again 1 note and so on. I cannot see how that is possible with this gen-hocket function. It looks like not without other functions. That is way I suggested to add another option like :alternate or what ever it is called to specify the alternation pattern that makes really sure that no voices sound together but the whole melody is played. Maybe like '(v1 v2) or '(v1 v1 v2 v2) or '(v1 v2 v2 v3 v3 v3) or '(v 1 v2 v3). Still don't get what density has to do with hocketing. To me this was the simple idea of hocketing: Sure, we are not in the medievals anymore. Just my ideas on it. I have a working non-library-function for this kind of simple hocketing. See above.

Okay, but there is no alternating. How would I use this function to alternately hocket through a omn. v1,v2,v3,v4,v1,v2,v3,v4,...... or with 8 voices or any other number. Just straight alternating.

Thanks. I tried some but I don't get how I would do a simple alternating hocket with 3 or more voices without complicated binary-lists that make sure that voices don't sound the same time. Would it be possible to have an option to just set the number of voices and get alternating hocketing with any number of voices ? No binary-lists for each voice needed. Possibly as a pattern list that repeats like '( 1 2) or '( 1 2 3 4 ) or '( 1 1 2 2) or '( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) the numbers are the voices. Could be any symbol. Maybe I missed some in the document and it is already easily possible.

The idea with add-program-attributes and '(ch1) etc. I got from Stephane and used it quite often for splitting voices. Wouldn't have thought of that myself. Thanks. Different problem, but... https://opusmodus.com/forums/topic/3801-playing-a-multi-channel-guitar-instrument-on-midi-channels-1-6/?&do=getNewComment&comment=12962

Yes it works. The bars are gone but can be added later. You have to do some calculations for 3 or 4 voices. A good idea. I have not yet used the lake-functions. I like Per Nørgård's music. Will have a closer look at it. When there are rests in the omn then there will be no real hocketing because the rest is an event and the same voice plays the next pitch, too. As far as I see the rk_hocket takes care of the rests. @AM: Thanks. Will have a look at it tomorrow.

Yes, but how could that be used to hocket over an existing omn like this: (setf test '((q c4 stacc d4 leg e4 f4 g4 stacc a4 b4 c5) (e c4 stacc d4 leg e4 f4 g4 stacc a4 b4 c5)))

I understood that jacobcvt12 is looking for a hocketing-function that can be applied to any existing omn. I improved my idea above to work over any omn-seq with or without attributes and with or without bars. (setf test '(q c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 b4 c5)) (setf test '(q c4 stacc d4 leg e4 f4 g4 stacc a4 b4 c5)) (setf test '((q c4 stacc d4 leg e4 f4 g4 stacc a4 b4 c5)(e c4 stacc d4 leg e4 f4 g4 stacc a4 b4 c5))) (setf test '((q c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 b4 c5)(e c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 b4 c5))) ;; call this function or add it to the "User attributes.lisp" under extensions. Add any number of chx or what you want to call it. (add-program-attributes '(ch1) '(ch2) '(ch3) '(ch4) ) ;; function to define number of voices and setting the attributes. starts each bar from ch1 when :bars is t (defun rk_hocket (omnl ch_list &key (bars nil)) (if (some 'listp omnl) (if (not bars) (omn-replace :articulation (merge-attributes (get-articulation omnl) (gen-divide (mclength (omn :articulation omnl)) (flatten (gen-repeat (length (flatten seq)) ch_list)))) omnl) (omn-replace :articulation (loop for bar in omnl collect (merge-attributes (get-articulation bar) (gen-repeat (length bar) ch_list))) omnl)) (omn-replace :articulation (merge-attributes (get-articulation omnl) (gen-repeat (length omnl) ch_list)) omnl) ) ) ;; call function with attribute-list (setf channels (rk_hocket test '(ch1 ch2 ch3) :bars t)) ;; could also be like this (setf channels (rk_hocket test '(ch1 ch3 ch3 ch2))) ;; then use filter-events to get the part you want. This works for any number of voices(channels) you defined (setf t_ch1 (filter-events 'ch1 channels :joined-attributes t)) (setf t_ch2 (filter-events 'ch2 channels :joined-attributes t)) (setf t_ch3 (filter-events 'ch3 channels :joined-attributes t)) ;; you can also do that on creation of the omn (setf test (make-omn :pitch '(c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 b4 c5) :length '(q) :articulation '(ch1 ch2 ch3) :span :pitch)) ;; and than use the filter-events ;; test on a more complicated omn (setf seq '((5h fs6 mp stacc 5q f6 ten - fs6 fermata) (3h bb6 p stacc -3q) (5q gs6 f stacc a6 ten - gs6 fs6 fermata) (5e gs6 mf stacc fs6 stacc 5q g6 ten - gs6 fermata g6) (s bb6 mp stacc b6 ten bb6 -) (5q f6 p stacc 5h fs6 ten 5q f6 -) (5q eb6 f stacc - 5h e6 ten 5q eb6))) (setf channels (rk_hocket seq '(ch1 ch2 ch3))) (setf channels (rk_hocket seq '(ch1 ch2 ch3) :bars t)) (setf t_ch1 (filter-events 'ch1 channels :joined-attributes t))As hocket is a defined musical technique maybe Opusmodus could offer a library-function for this? This one is good enough for me. So far no problems. I could not find a function to just add attributes to an own-seq. So I had to get-articulation, merge the ones I want to add and then replace-articulation. Is there a way to just add a list of attributes directly without deleting the old ones? I mean the merging is done in the function if there is something to merge.

;;; more flexible is this approach: (setf test '(q c4 stacc d4 leg e4 f4 g4 stacc a4 b4 c5)) ;; call this function or add it to the "User attributes.lisp" under extensions. Call the attribute ch(x) or voice(x) (add-program-attributes '(ch1) '(ch2) '(ch3) '(ch4) '(ch5) '(ch6) '(ch7) '(ch8) '(ch9) '(ch10) '(ch11) '(ch12) '(ch13) '(ch14) '(ch15) '(ch16) ) ;; then add to the omn-sequence the nubmber of voices as attributes ;;best is to create this attributes when you create the omn. ;;if there are no other attributes this will do (setf channels (omn-replace :articulation '(ch1 ch2 ch3) test)) ;or any number of channels ;; if there are other attributes, first get the attributes and then merge and then omn-replace (setf add_chx (merge-attributes (get-articulation test) (gen-repeat 500 '(ch1 ch2 ch3)))) (setf channels (omn-replace :articulation add_chx test)) ;; then use filter-events to get the part you want. This works to anny number of voices(channels) you defined (setf t_ch1 (filter-events 'ch1 channels :joined-attributes t)) (setf t_ch2 (filter-events 'ch2 channels :joined-attributes t)) (setf t_ch3 (filter-events 'ch3 channels :joined-attributes t)) If there is a better way to do that I would like to know.

:exclude refers to sections meaning sublists (bars). My first idea was this: (setf test '(q c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 b4 c5)) (length-rest-series (rp '(200 1)) test) (length-rest-series (rp '((1 0) (200 1))) test)Instead of 200 use just any number bigger than the length of the list.

Thank you. Works. I was searching in the assistant for a function with "rest" in it. Didn't think about searching for "pause". But: (dictum '( :do -q :bar 1 :event 1 ) omn2) should either throw an error if rests are not supported or change the event to a rest and not to a length. And an option to maybe ":do - :bar 1 :event 1" (or something like it) would be nice if you want to change for the same rest-length . Rolf

I would like to change with dictum the first event in the first bar ( or whatever) to a rest of the same length. I tried several things but could not do it. (setf omn2 '((5q fs4 p - bb3 f3 e4 -3q g4 c5 s eb5 mf a5 cs6 gs6) (5q gs6 f cs6 a5 eb5 - -s c5 g4 e4))) (dictum '( :do -5q :bar 1 :event 1 ) omn2) ;does not work. The length and not the rest is set. ;=>((5q fs4 p - bb3 f3 e4 -3q g4 c5 s eb5 mf a5 cs6 gs6) (5q gs6 f cs6 a5 eb5 - -s c5 g4 e4)) (dictum '( :do -q :bar 1 :event 1 ) omn2) ;same here ;=> ((q fs4 p -5q bb3 f3 e4 -3q g4 c5 s eb5 mf a5 cs6 gs6) (5q gs6 f cs6 a5 eb5 - -s c5 g4 e4)) A function to change a length to the same rest I did not find. Anyone any idea how to do that. Maybe a dictum option like :do :rest would be possible (or something like this) Probably there is an easy way and I didn't find it.

Dear Julio, first, thanks for your excellent book. Did you ever try "MIDI Guitar 3" by "jam origin" for midi-entry? There is a demo to test. I think it tracks better than any 13-pin stuff I had. You can insert any plugins to hear your midi-sound. Converter and synth are in one app. Works for Mac and win. There is a lot of info on this YouTube-channel: www.youtube.com/@lofileif I real like your playing on your YouTube-channel and you CD.

I remember some lyrics from a famous song: "You can't always get what you want But if you try sometime you'll find You get what you need". 😉 🙂 I understand, it is always strange to loose functions when upgrading. But maybe it is not so easy to implement with a new framework, which V3 is based on. Or just forgotten. Maybe it will come back. CMD-S is the programmers friend and can save a lot of time and sometimes money. I learned the hard way.

Your picture does not show the whole path. When you hit option-cmd-p you see the whole path of the file in the lower part of the finder. A picture of that would show that the path was correct. Did you try without the underscore?